Comments on: the fucking pricks treat us like cunts http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/ John Eden: BM Box 3641, London, WC1N 3XX, England UK Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:07:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: padraig http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2578 padraig Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:08:06 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2578 AL - certainly. or on the U.S. side the incredible NYC scene of the early-mid 80s with like Liquid Liquid & ESG & Arthur Russell all mixed up with No Wave and early hip hop and Larry Levan including Talking Heads records in his Paradise Garage sets. or bands like The Big Boys & The Minutemen - I didn't mean to exclude any of that stuff. btw I think the KYPP site is fantastic & fascinating - I just explored it a little bit the other day and when I get some real free time I'm very much looking forward to spending an hour or two looking through its archives. many thanks to you and the other folks working on it. john - well, yeah. it's like anything really, boundless & incredibly exciting at first until the labels & rules really set in and made everything rigid stale. I do kinda wish it hadn't taken me four years or so of playing in crust bands and living squats to figure that out. not that I regret a minute of it. :) and there will always be a large spot in my heart for that early 80s anarcho scene and the ideas & music it produced. AL - certainly. or on the U.S. side the incredible NYC scene of the early-mid 80s with like Liquid Liquid & ESG & Arthur Russell all mixed up with No Wave and early hip hop and Larry Levan including Talking Heads records in his Paradise Garage sets. or bands like The Big Boys & The Minutemen - I didn’t mean to exclude any of that stuff. btw I think the KYPP site is fantastic & fascinating - I just explored it a little bit the other day and when I get some real free time I’m very much looking forward to spending an hour or two looking through its archives. many thanks to you and the other folks working on it.

john - well, yeah. it’s like anything really, boundless & incredibly exciting at first until the labels & rules really set in and made everything rigid stale. I do kinda wish it hadn’t taken me four years or so of playing in crust bands and living squats to figure that out. not that I regret a minute of it. :) and there will always be a large spot in my heart for that early 80s anarcho scene and the ideas & music it produced.

]]> By: john http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2567 john Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:52:53 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2567 padraig - I try to forget that punk is an ongoing zombie genre, for exactly the reasons you mention! Mr Pressor - I haven't heard it for a while but it is quite accessible - certainly not improv jazz. Quite rhythmic but unfortunately not as "industrial dub" as stuff like "End of the 20th Century Party" or the early Tackhead 12". Worth checking some online snippets if you can find them. Al - yes I think that is a more interesting current, which was often more successful in its experimentation for my money. ATV I have a lot of time for... - everyone go over to killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news and gorge yourselves on downloads! ;) padraig - I try to forget that punk is an ongoing zombie genre, for exactly the reasons you mention!

Mr Pressor - I haven’t heard it for a while but it is quite accessible - certainly not improv jazz. Quite rhythmic but unfortunately not as “industrial dub” as stuff like “End of the 20th Century Party” or the early Tackhead 12″. Worth checking some online snippets if you can find them.

Al - yes I think that is a more interesting current, which was often more successful in its experimentation for my money. ATV I have a lot of time for… - everyone go over to killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news and gorge yourselves on downloads! ;)

]]> By: AL Puppy http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2566 AL Puppy Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:11:57 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2566 What about the alternative ripple/ current which ran from the Soft Machine/Daevid Allen into punk via ATV who played with Here and Now in 1978 and with early input by Genesis P. Orridge through Streetlevel Studios/ Fuck Off Records and got mixed in with the London Musicians Collective ? Or the Pop Group/ Mark Stewart experimentations? If you hack through the musical undergrowth on the KYPP site (which has its punk roots in Ripped and Torn fanzine est. October 1976) there are all manner of wierd and wonderful musical noises. Also have a listen to some of the 'post 1986' musics. What about the alternative ripple/ current which ran from the Soft Machine/Daevid Allen into punk via ATV who played with Here and Now in 1978 and with early input by Genesis P. Orridge through Streetlevel Studios/ Fuck Off Records and got mixed in with the London Musicians Collective ?

Or the Pop Group/ Mark Stewart experimentations?

If you hack through the musical undergrowth on the KYPP site (which has its punk roots in Ripped and Torn fanzine est. October 1976) there are all manner of wierd and wonderful musical noises. Also have a listen to some of the ‘post 1986′ musics.

]]> By: padraig http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2565 padraig Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:56:13 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2565 ^ 1) Yeah but that's like Hot Topic, no? doesn't really have much to do w/the scene I'm talking about, in which most people wouldn't be caught dead in that kinda store, let alone buying a pre-decorated leather jacket. more Profane Existence & Food Not Bombs than Holidays in the Sun, that is. 2) fashion is much more important in Japan than it is in the States - most punks here who are beyond their teens and still punks don't really bother with it much, at least not in the traditional studded leather jacket/spiky hair sense. for anyone interested, here's an article about the influence of free jazz upon punk and the connections between the two - http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/jazzpunk.html ^ 1) Yeah but that’s like Hot Topic, no? doesn’t really have much to do w/the scene I’m talking about, in which most people wouldn’t be caught dead in that kinda store, let alone buying a pre-decorated leather jacket. more Profane Existence & Food Not Bombs than Holidays in the Sun, that is.
2) fashion is much more important in Japan than it is in the States - most punks here who are beyond their teens and still punks don’t really bother with it much, at least not in the traditional studded leather jacket/spiky hair sense.

for anyone interested, here’s an article about the influence of free jazz upon punk and the connections between the two - http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/jazzpunk.html

]]> By: Downpressor http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2562 Downpressor Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:13:21 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2562 John, Any idea about that Uncarved album? Does it sound like this free jazz stuff or like an On U thing? Though then again, the two were not so easily separated at times... padraig, Near my first apartment Tokyo, there was a shop which sells off the rack punk fashion. A pre-decorated (patches and studs) motorcycle jacket, plaid bondage pans, creepers and a fedora would run about 120,000 Yen (about £600~700 at todays strong £ rates, or $1,100 at the weaker $ rate). This is to say that the lack of inflationary pressure seems to be a non constant. John,

Any idea about that Uncarved album? Does it sound like this free jazz stuff or like an On U thing? Though then again, the two were not so easily separated at times…

padraig,

Near my first apartment Tokyo, there was a shop which sells off the rack punk fashion. A pre-decorated (patches and studs) motorcycle jacket, plaid bondage pans, creepers and a fedora would run about 120,000 Yen (about £600~700 at todays strong £ rates, or $1,100 at the weaker $ rate). This is to say that the lack of inflationary pressure seems to be a non constant.

]]> By: padraig http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2559 padraig Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:59:06 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2559 to stave off confusion/misunderstanding, I'm talking about punk as a living thing here, not as people who were around in the 1978 (or 1986 or whatever) rehashing old times. I think maybe John & others are talking about the latter. what I meant by "everything based on nostalgia" is that punks are generally trying to recreate something that has already passed into history instead of taking it as an influence and moving forward. musically it's always been so conservative, almost as a counterpoint to the attitude and/or politics, that anyone who wants to innovate even a little winds up drifting away fairly quickly and the only people left are ones who want to sound exactly like Amebix or some obscure Japanese band from the 80s. the culture as well - punks exist in some weird vacuum outside of regular time, where inflation never happens (e.g. all shows are forever $5 and all 7" are forever $3) and where the height of fashion (dread mullet, bullet belt, black denim vests etc.) has been the same for the last 20 years or so. it's also true that "punk" as a subculture has almost nothing to do with the way the word itself has come to be tossed around as a cultural signifier in the last decade or so. to stave off confusion/misunderstanding, I’m talking about punk as a living thing here, not as people who were around in the 1978 (or 1986 or whatever) rehashing old times. I think maybe John & others are talking about the latter.

what I meant by “everything based on nostalgia” is that punks are generally trying to recreate something that has already passed into history instead of taking it as an influence and moving forward. musically it’s always been so conservative, almost as a counterpoint to the attitude and/or politics, that anyone who wants to innovate even a little winds up drifting away fairly quickly and the only people left are ones who want to sound exactly like Amebix or some obscure Japanese band from the 80s. the culture as well - punks exist in some weird vacuum outside of regular time, where inflation never happens (e.g. all shows are forever $5 and all 7″ are forever $3) and where the height of fashion (dread mullet, bullet belt, black denim vests etc.) has been the same for the last 20 years or so. it’s also true that “punk” as a subculture has almost nothing to do with the way the word itself has come to be tossed around as a cultural signifier in the last decade or so.

]]> By: Robert Elms http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2558 Robert Elms Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:18:36 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2558 Punk was just for hippies anyway, when I was growing up the proper lads were into hush puppies and Bix Biderbecke records. I remember at one stage you couldn't be one of the boys without a twinset and pearls. Without that, you were nobody. Punk was just for hippies anyway, when I was growing up the proper lads were into hush puppies and Bix Biderbecke records. I remember at one stage you couldn’t be one of the boys without a twinset and pearls. Without that, you were nobody.

]]> By: Mark E Smith http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2557 Mark E Smith Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:54:32 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2557 None of you lot know about punk, bunch of fucking postgrads sitting around moaning about the fucking music business...Crass and all that shit...I liked Roogalator, they were much more fucking avant garde...all those floppy punk mongs selling fucking fanzines. Can't fucking spell. Learn to spell, boy. Fucking prison warder could tell you that. Grammar school anarchists. You can't even light up on the train without some fucker telling you put it out. And the fucking Poison Girls and all those politicals, setting up fucking music classes in college! YTS fucking bands. It's disgusting. But you lot like making lists on blogs, so you're going on about "Hillage Group" and Crass. It was just like I predicted in fucking 1981. None of you lot know about punk, bunch of fucking postgrads sitting around moaning about the fucking music business…Crass and all that shit…I liked Roogalator, they were much more fucking avant garde…all those floppy punk mongs selling fucking fanzines. Can’t fucking spell. Learn to spell, boy. Fucking prison warder could tell you that. Grammar school anarchists. You can’t even light up on the train without some fucker telling you put it out. And the fucking Poison Girls and all those politicals, setting up fucking music classes in college! YTS fucking bands. It’s disgusting. But you lot like making lists on blogs, so you’re going on about “Hillage Group” and Crass. It was just like I predicted in fucking 1981.

]]> By: John http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2556 John Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:39:06 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2556 I think the difficulty is that "punk" can now mean anything vaguely rebellious or shocking, rather than a genuinely shocking amalgam of ideas nicked off the situationists and others which actually offended "many right thinking people" who needed to be offended. Personally I blame all the "cash from chaos" stuff which went along with McLaren's "Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle" film - which basically tried to suggest that the whole thing was just smart entreprenuerialism (surely that can't be a word?!) than anything focussed on challenging the dominant order. I think the difficulty is that “punk” can now mean anything vaguely rebellious or shocking, rather than a genuinely shocking amalgam of ideas nicked off the situationists and others which actually offended “many right thinking people” who needed to be offended.

Personally I blame all the “cash from chaos” stuff which went along with McLaren’s “Great Rock ‘n’ Roll Swindle” film - which basically tried to suggest that the whole thing was just smart entreprenuerialism (surely that can’t be a word?!) than anything focussed on challenging the dominant order.

]]> By: STN http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/04/the-fucking-pricks-treat-us-like-cunts/#comment-2555 STN Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:42:03 +0000 http://www.uncarved.org/blog/?p=1256#comment-2555 I got into punk aged about 14 in 1994. The wheels were in motion then, but it wasn't used to describe estate agents and chefs at that point. I was sad that the Sex Pistols reformed. Lydon just looks such a fool now, and I guess that's when the so-unpunk-it's-actually-punk-geddit? stuff started to be wheeled out. Why am I haunting this thread like this? I got into punk aged about 14 in 1994. The wheels were in motion then, but it wasn’t used to describe estate agents and chefs at that point. I was sad that the Sex Pistols reformed. Lydon just looks such a fool now, and I guess that’s when the so-unpunk-it’s-actually-punk-geddit? stuff started to be wheeled out.

Why am I haunting this thread like this?

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